This is seen in the case of the Centaur class aircraft carrier HMS Hermes which did see successful action in the Falklands, and it could arguably be the case, that its very survival along with the HMS Invincible was the reason the War in the Falklands was victorious for the British. the talk of the 7th astute being cancelled is yet another failing of this nation to follow the old adage of in times of peace, prepare for war,. eagle was in far better condition and, as still goes on ships are not maintained as they are in the u.s in a state where reactivation is possible h.m.s blake was assessed in chatham for reactivation but had been cannibalised propulsion wise orhermes too often. Lycaon, I could be wrong, but I thought John Nott was Minister for Defence at the time. Alphard, Buccaneers would also allow the potential for a strike on the Argentinian mainline, although very unlikely. Colthurst, RN), AA ship HMS Alynbank (A/Capt.(Retd.) During its history, while HMS Ark Royal underwent many refits and innovations, it did suffer from technical issues due to the age of the vessel as it was built in 1944. H.J. Access dedicated veterans charities and get all the support you need, from help with any mental health issues to financial advice. A memorial was subsequently erected to the lost crewmen on Berthas Beach which remains a popular site with British personnel stationed in the Falklands. Stewart, RNR) and the minesweepers HMS Acute (Lt.Cdr. When off Cape Bon on 9 November, they were taken under fire by Vichy French coastal batteries, despite the darkness, and then captured by motor torpedo boats. St.J.R.J. It had already had a reprieve and its time in-service date put forward. Withdrawing the Ark in 79 would only have further convinced them of our North Atlantic/NATO centric pivot. Island nation which now depends on communications cables too easy to cut. For Ark Royal to be operational, a lot of work would have needed to be done. The Royal Navy is a highly skilled multi-disciplinary team and together we protect the nation's interest. They were escorted by the AA ship HMS Palomeres, destroyer ORP Blyskawica, escort destroyers HMS Lamerton, HMS Wheatland, HMS Wilton, minesweepers HMS Acute, HMS Alarm, HMS Albacore, MS trawlers HMS Hoy, HMS Incholm, HMS Mull and the motor launches HMS ML 238, HMS ML 307 and HMS ML 444. But I think the simple question is would we have been better of with just HMS Ark Royal, or as it was Illustrious and Hermes and personally Id say no. From memory the Argies were more bothered about getting In and established before a sub could be sent. KMS A1 was destined for Algiers and KMS O1 was destined for Oran. British intelligence had evidence of preparations but assumed they were bluffing. K.G. D.E. D. Lampen, DSO, RN), HMS Alarm (T/Lt.Cdr. failure to convert the rivers to be able to carry out asw is another opportunity lost. Connect with like-minded people and develop a peer-to-peer support network both online and at community centres. Two ships of the Royal Navy have been named HMS Rhyl, after the town of Rhyl in Wales: HMS Rhyl (J36) was a Bangor -class minesweeper launched in 1940 and sold in 1948. HMS Rhyl (F129) was a Rothesay -class frigate launched in 1959 and expended as a target in 1985. They were escorted by the sloop HMS Deptford, cutters HMS Hartland, HMS Walney, corvettes HMS Rhododendron, HMS Violet and the motor launches HMS ML 480 and HMS ML 483. Ettrick, Mark Twain (American, 7176 GRT, built 1942), Eight motor torpedo boats and / or motor gun boats were also set to patrol in the area. The debate is what if Ark was still available for the fight not would it have acted as a deterrent more than what we had already. Around noon on 4 November 1942, the convoy was split up into two sections KMF A1 and KMF O1. This ship was invaluable during the Falklands conflict and should not be forgotten in its role as a key capital ship. However if they did, then we'd need to ponder whether Hermes and Invincible would be transformed into v/stol or stayed with their previous helicopter carrier configuration. However, another interesting fact was that breaking up of Ark Royal took until 1983. HMS "Berwick" anti submarine frigate. I believed they even looked at an ocean going tug towing a Bulwark down there with strap on DG sets in containers fixed on board for power just to provide an extra flight deck. A.P. Reina del Pacifico (British, 17702 GRT, built 1931), J.L. ' However one realty remained that governed everything. Ettrick (British, 11279 GRT, built 1938), Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Ocean Rider (British, 7178 GRT, built 1942), This is also an area for any with an interest in all things HMS RHYL. High-tempo operations could have rapidly worn down aging aircraft and raised the risk of operational accidents. For a list of naval forces from Argentina, see Argentine naval forces in the Falklands War. Ensuring the security of home and international waters is central to the stability and prosperity of Britain and the world economy. I wonder if these constant threats of further cuts bear down on the morale of the Armed Services, course they do , but the Politicians safe in theirRead more . A memorial to mark the 40th anniversary of the deadly attack on a Royal Navy destroyer during the Falklands War has been unveiled. They were escorted by the sloop HMS Stork and the corvettes HMS Pentstemon and HMS Samphire. From Sfax, ' Convoy A ' sailed for the landings on Pantelleria. In 78 the Argentine was making noise and we got a couple of SSN down there quickly enough toRead more . D.S. W. Harmsen, RNN) and HMS Escapade (Cdr. WebDeparted HMNB Portsmouth for 7.5 month group deployment (TG 317.6) to Australia and Far East, escorting HMS Tiger and in company with RFA Grey Rover, RFA Regent, RFA Tarbatness and RFA Tidepool. Surtees, RNR), HMS Inchmarnock (T/Lt. Silently patrolling the worlds seas is our formidable fleet of submarines. Take the helos off and you might get a few more Phantoms on and as the air threat is going to be the issue here and the Phantoms can also do ground attack, the Buccs may well lose a couple to get the fighter number up. Gibbs, DSO and Bar, RN), HMS Royal Scotsman (Lt.Cdr. HMS. Crucially it also carried the Gannet AEW system which would have provided and invaluable early warning system. [exactly which ships of the escort went on with this part of the convoy will have to be researched further.]. Jauncey, RN), HMS Pozarica (Capt.(Retd.) No reason why Harriers, if deployed on CATO-BAR carriers in the Falklands War couldnt be Catapulted, and Land STOVL? Cathay, The early warning Garnets would have made surprise low level attacks less successful, and the bombing of their airfields and naval ports would have been a strong possibility. Ninja Arashi Mod Apk, Convoy KMS A 1 was to pass the Strait of Gibraltar around 2345A/5; it was made up of the transports; Better news for RN carrier aviation too. Given the conditions in which some of the Sea Harriers were able to get back on deck its hard not to imagine that some of the F-4s might, at the very least, have suffered damage in landing incidents. Wilson scrapped the newer ship. During her last refit she was fitted for four Sea Cat missile launchers, but they were never installed, so she emerged from this refit with no defensive armament. We are cursed by Governments who seem to ignore their first duty Defence of the Nation Hammond is a first class example of an idiot who with a wave of the hand stresses we only need an Army of 50,000 . Scott, RN) departed Gibraltar to join the convoy. This is a list of the naval forces from the United Kingdom that took part in the Falklands War, often referred to as "the Task Force" in the context of the war. Learn about the different types of accommodation available through the Royal Navy and find an option that meets your needs. There is nothing at the site no wreck on the sea bed. The force for ' A Sector ' was made up of HMS Karanja and the Marnix van St. Aldegonde and Viceroy of India. If either carrier was lost it would effectively end the operation. They were manned by Royal Naval personnel, mainly from 1st MCM Squadron based at Rosyth. 14 Comments HMS Sheffield was a Type 42 guided missile destroyer, the first of fourteen Type 42 destroyers to enter the Royal Navy service plus two that, ironically entered Argentinian Navy. HMS Eagle was the Not necessarily a carrier, perhaps a few frigates/destroyers to show we meant business. They were escorted by the escort destroyers HMS Lamerton (Lt.Cdr. Likewise the Bucc would give a far better ground attack capability as well as a far greater threat to any Argentinian naval attack, likely stopping any sortie by the General Belgrano in the first place. Ocean Volga (British, 7174 GRT, built 1942), The illegal invasion of sovereign British territory by the Argentinian government seemed to be predicated on the belief that the UK would not fight to retrieve them. never mind the rivers, t45,s, frigates et al the u.k primary nato task is to deny access to the north atlantic to the russian northern fleet. W.R.K. I dont believe the Argentines would have taken the islands if Hermes and the Ark had been retained as fast jet carriers. R.M.J. H.G. Heavily-armed, long-legged and equipped with a powerful pulse-doppler radar, Phantom on CAP up-threat of the islands would have wreaked havoc against incoming Argentine raids including the Exocet carrying Super Etendards. Island nation that operates a just in time supply chain for just about everything. X ', ' Y ' and ' Z ' beach. H.E.F. All five minesweepers were involved in clearing two minefields off Port Stanley. The indication to the Argentineans was that we no longer wanted/had the will to defend the islands. L.J.S. Commander Task Group 324.3 and Flag Officer Submarines: Commander Task Group 317.8 (Carrier/Battle Group) and Flag Officer, First Flotilla: Commander Task Group 317.0 (Amphibious Task Group) and Commodore Amphibious Warfare: flight deck for 4 Sea King HC.4 (not embarked), This page was last edited on 25 December 2022, at 07:32. Powerful air support is provided by some of the worlds most advanced aircraft in the most testing of environments. Gibbs, DSO and Bar, RN). Around 1500A/6, the minesweepers HMS Brixham (Lt. G.A. Agnew, CB, RN) departed Gibraltar to join convoy KMF O1. Please leave a comment below if you have something to say! Crewe-Read, RN), HMS Princess Beatrix (Cdr.(Retd.) It's certainly an interesting hypothetical and it isn't as clear-cut as you might think. The Ark was a nightmare to keep operational her whole career. H. Day, RN), HMS Enchantress (Lt.Cdr. Convoy C ' was made up of landing ship HMS Misoa (Lt.Cdr. Something else to consider is that if the AR or Eagle had not been scrapped then the aircraft themselves may well haveRead more . The turn had prevented the missile from striking the ship's side perpendicularly and penetrating; instead, it hit the deck The blast travelled forwards and down, and the missile body, still travelling forwards, penetrated the hangar door, causing the ship's fully fuelled and armed On the following day, repairs were made at sea and, after the Argentinian surrender on 14 June, more extensive repairs were undertaken in the sheltered bay of A Memorial was erected in 2011 in memory of the ship and the lost crew at Hookers Point outside Stanley.Her last active deployment for the Royal Navy was in 1983/4 and she was sent on the Armilla Patrol with MoD release detailing date and position of sinking, 25 July 2008 This was a Rothesay class anti-submarine frigate built at Portsmouth and completed in 1960. Lord Teynham, RN), HMS Velox (Lt. G.B. There has been a lot of bagging of the invincible class, and the harriers, by many, and lamenting about the glory days of the big carriers is an easy thing to do. Firth, MVO, RN) and RHS Vasilissa Olga (Lt.Cdr. Four decades on and thanks to money from the Royal Navy and Royal Marines Charity, and selfless work by Landing Craft coxswain Sergeant Dan Langley RM, Lieutenant Colonel Thurstan took a new memorial plaque to the site, dedicated by the RAF padre in the presence of islanders and veterans on the day after Forths memorial service. A.F. Orbita, C.R. As one Phantom pilot turned Sea Harrier driver later said: "If you consider the deck movement of the carriers we had in the Falklands, we were operating in +/- 4 or 5, a different order of magnitude. L.S. On assembly the convoy was escorted by the escort carrier HMS Avenger (Cdr. Brunton, DSC, RN), HMS Queen Emma (Capt.(Retd.) This is very much a what if question, that has possibly been posed by other scholars. During its last tour of duty, the aircraft complement of the Ark Royal was as follows:14 Buccaneer S2s, 12 Phantom FG1s, 4 Gannet AEW3, 1 Gannet COD4, 7 Sea king, and 2 Wessex helicopters. They were escorted by the M/S trawlers HMS Fluellen (T/Lt. Its not as straightforward as many people make out. If Ark Royal went with either Hermes or Invincible, the air group would be bigger and more capable: Ark royal typically carried 26ish buccs and phantoms. This is seen in the case of the Centaur class aircraft carrier HMS, which did see successful action in the Falklands, and it could arguably be the case, that its very survival along with the HMS, was the reason the War in the Falklands was victorious for the British. Nichols, USN), USS Leedstown (Cdr. Ark's Gannets had an endurance of five hours. Forth then several more miles out to sea to the spot where the landing craft was last seen in 1982 following valiant efforts to salvage her, and the Still was piped in memory. Returned 20 Apr 1978. Sharkey's way is the right way. Johns, RN), HMS Antelope (Lt.Cdr. Marnix van St. Aldegonde, The radar only had an effective range of a 100 miles. Llangibby Castle (British, 11951 GRT, built 1929), Also, can whomever writes these articles stop referring to RN ships as the HMS Ark Royal? Maron (British, 6487 GRT, built 1930), The Phantoms would have been armed with the radar guided Sky Flash AAM. Here are the instructions how to enable JavaScript in your web browser. Sobieski (British, 11030 GRT, built 1939), Ardeola (British, 2609 GRT, built 1912), C.W. Around 0725Z/7, HMS Clare parted company to join ' Force O ' which she did around 0913Z/7. A. Stirling, RNR) and HMS Shiant (T/Lt. W.G. D. Cook, USNR), USS Samuel Chase (Capt. City of Worcester (British, 5469 GRT, built 1927), In the unlikely event of the Ark royal being serviceable ,theres a fairly good chance that the Argentineans would have sunk her. Tyrwhitt, DSC, RN), HMS Troubridge (Capt. Williams, RN) and HMS Cadmus (Lt.Cdr. The wreck remains unlocated to this day. Anyway, there's an alternate history timeline on this already (sorta). Convoy KMF O 1 was to pass the Strait of Gibraltar around 2230A/6; it was made up of the (troop) transports; They had the same escort as Group III. Brunton, DSC, RN) and HMS Queen Emma (Capt.(Retd.) Also air bombardments were carried out. The fighting arms of the Royal Navy work together to protect our nations interests at sea, on land and in the air. HMS Plymouth was a Royal Navy Rothesay -class frigate. But on the other hand, weather, aging airframes, and small numbers would have greatly constrained Ark's ability to wage a sustained air campaign. H.G. HMS Antrim, providing air defence for the troopship Canberra, had been struck by two Argentinian bombs which failed to explode. No lighting , big holes in the internal decks, A few things: In 1972 Ark Royal was rushed to Belize to deter a Guatemalan invasion. Divers, OBE, RNR, flying the flag of Rear-Admiral R.R. Having, in my opinion, one of the best naval strike aircraft of the period available ends up with the runway put out of commission far faster and far more permanently than the Black Buck raids would ever accomplish. This convoy was assembled off Oversay on 26 October 1942. Tegelberg and 04 April 2022 I think yes, as I find it coincidental that Ark was decommissioned in Dec 1979 and scrapping began in 1980 followed by the invasion in 1982. The need was the Gannet AEW. Mooltan (British, 20952 GRT, built 1923), Surely had the Hermes/other assets been deployed as a show of force the war could have been avoided. The likelihood of retaining the territory would have been very low, and likely that the Argentines would have held back their plans. Duchess of Bedford (British, 20123 GRT, built 1928), P.C. While the Gannet would have literally saved lives, the carrier was to small to operate modern jets, hence why it only had 12 Phantom. The war needed to have been fought as long as the Argentinians held the Falklands. Almaack, Around 1000A/6, HMS Broke, HMS Malcolm, HMS Vanoc and HMS Wrestler joined ' Force O ' while the screen on ' Force O ' joined the convoy, the destroyers / escort destroyers involved were ORP Blyskawica (Lt.Cdr. They were escorted by the AA ship HMS Pozarica, escort destroyers HMS Bicester, HMS Bramham, frigate HMS Rother, minesweeper HMS Cadmus, MS trawlers HMS Juliet, HMS Rysa, HMS Stroma and the motor launches HMS ML 283, HMS ML 336 and HMS ML 338. Around 0200A/3, the AA ships HMS Palomares (A/Capt.(Retd.) They were escorted by the escort destroyers HMS Eggesford (Lt.Cdr. P.G. For the landings at Oran three main beaches were selected. ' At one point the Sea Harriers managed to cover three CAP stations. As long as we had another smaller carrier too, share could have provided fleet protection CAP leaving the bigger aircraft for more offensive roles. HMS Hermes, was converted to a helicopter carrier, and then to a vertical take-off and landing aircraft carrier suitable for the Harrier jump jets which were invaluable to military So it was thought there could have been a chance to roll launch over the ramp of Hermes. We work with our allies and partners to help cement the relationships that our nation depends on. This was a state of the art missile at the time, but the aircrafts systems could only engage one target at a time. Landman, RN), sloops HMS Aberdeen (Lt.Cdr. would have been able to, would have shifted the balance of power more favorably to the British Royal Navy, and provided even greater aircover while possibly deterring the war in the first place. Its American-designed AN/APS-20F search radar had first entered service in 1945. Also, prior to the invasion there were massive demonstrations against the junta in Argentina. Port View. Historically British governments have neglected defence spending and I fear one day we may get caught out. For full functionality of this site it is necessary to enable JavaScript. It would have provided an additional 120nm range over the SeaKing AEW. Charles H. Cramp (American, 6220 GRT, built 1920), Delilian (British, 6423 GRT, built 1923), From what I have read and been told both the eagle and ark were materially nackered, the fact they got ark beyond the mid seventies was miraculous. Click here to Submit events/comments/updates for this vessel. The Buccaneer's buddy-tanking capability could also have been used to keep Phantoms on CAP longer. This is the case of accountancy over strategic necessity. Abel Smith, RN), destroyer HMS Clare (Lt.Cdr. He never lived to collect it. Bockett-Pugh, DSO, RN) and HMS Wishart (Cdr. McGrath, RN), HMS Karanja (Lt.Cdr.(Emgy.) Benalbanach (British, 7153 GRT, built 1940), Keeping her was not a choice that could have been made, just a matter of how long the last of her spare parts (most recycled from Eagle) would keep working. No way are they going to have the predicted service life of 50 years. The Royal Navy was in a middle of another round of defence cuts which would have meant some of the capital ships including HMS Invincible would have been sold. Find out how you can cope with the challenges of deployment using an array of support services, tools and initiatives. Ocean Viceroy, Please use this if you spot mistakes or want to improve this ships page. Interesting when you look into the political and strategic aspects that as early as 1966, the UK Defence White Paper had planned to scrap the British Aircraft carriers in the early 1970s, leaving Britain without an aircraft carrier capability. HMS Rhyl Ships Nostalgia is the forum and discussion board for all things ships and shipping, providing a friendly community, advanced discussion board, gallery and more for your use. Pound, DSC, RN) and HMS Whaddon (Lt.Cdr. HMS Forth made the short voyage from her base in the islands to the spot where Foxtrot 4 was attacked late on June 8 1982 near the mouth of Choiseul Sound about four miles southeast of Berthas Beach on East Falkland. Following Royal Layard, RN), HMS Malcolm (A/Cdr. Neither Albion or Bulwark were ever in the yard. At 2135A/7, the beacon submarine HMS P 45 (Lt. H.B. Walt Whitman, Could keeping HMS Ark Royal have prevented the Falklands War? 1982-apr-22: recommissioned from disposal list: 1983-may: Deployment: On station off Falklands: 1983-jul: Aircraft: 829 Sq Wasp HAS.1 XT786 assigned as /441-FM by Jul 1983 to 7 Nov 1984: 1984-mar: Deployment: departed HMNB Portsmouth for 5 month Far East deployment, They were escorted by the corvettes HMS Convolvulus and HMS Marigold. First up, a navy with Ark Royal would be an utterly different navy. Leadership is an essential requirement at all levels throughout the Royal Navy. LCUs Foxtrot 1 and 4 supported HMS Antelope after she was attacked by Argentinian aircraft. Back: "Berwick" 7-79. Faber, RN) around 2220A/7 hours and landing operation commenced shortly afterwards. From Sousse, departed ' Convoy B ' and ' Convoy C '. They were escorted by the sloop HMS Stork and the corvettes HMS Pentstemon and HMS Samphire which then went on with the ships for the ' Charlie sector '. Ahead of the impending 40th anniversary commemorations of the conflict, the memorial on Berthas Beach in the Falkland Islands, dedicated to the memory of the crewmen was revamped ahead of a Service of Remembrance, and a wreath laid at sea from HMS Forth, the Royal Navys permanent guardian of the Islands. Would things have been better with Ark Royal and her Gannets? Currently serving in the Royal Navy? But the nextRead more . Safeguarding the essential trade routes that Britain depends on for 95% of its economic activity. Its just HMS Ark Royal, no the required, According to those that were there Thatcher asked whether the Ark could be brought back into service and was told she was too far gone (Ark that is, though I imagine Dennis had had a few after they were told the chances of success). Catapult launches put enormous stresses through an airframe and significantly reduce the life thereof. Also arriving at Gibraltar were the Leinster, HMS Royal Scotsman, HMS Royal Ulsterman and Ulster Monarch. Turner, RN) made contact with the force and the ships were guided to their positions for the landings. the boiler explosion that had prompted bulwarks retirement had never been even surveyed. At the heart of our naval prowess is an impressive fleet that includes destroyers, frigates and aircraft carriers. The F-4 was maintenance heavy and temperamental in comparison to the SHAR which chalked up astonishingly high mission availability rates during the war. White, RN), HMS Stork (Cdr. H.R. Derwentdale (8390 GRT, built 1941), Dewdale (8265 GRT, built 1941) and Ennerdale (8280 GRT, built 1941). The AA ship HMS Tynwald (Capt.(Retd.) If it necessary to create a 2 tier fleet of escortsRead more . Do not forget HMS Eagle, a newer ship than Ark Royal. More penny pinching by yet another Government. Edward Rutledge, Mary Slessor, F.Y. D.S. Thirty-eight years ago, HMS Coventry sank during the Falklands War. This is the place for you, Everyones experience is unique, but find out what lifes been like for others here, Everything you need to know about joining the Royal Navy, in one place, instructions how to enable JavaScript in your web browser, Defence review will forge a growing Navy with expanding horizons. Make out, providing air defence for the landings on Pantelleria in clearing two minefields off Port Stanley Rothesay... Get caught out to enable JavaScript is nothing at the site no wreck on the Argentinian mainline although! Built 1930 ), HMS Pozarica ( Capt. ( Retd. x ', ' convoy B ' '. Up, a lot of hms rhyl falklands would have been armed with the force '. Your web hms rhyl falklands shortly afterwards, the beacon submarine HMS P 45 ( Lt. G.B Sky AAM... Have neglected defence spending and I fear one Day we may get caught out they. 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Be forgotten in its role as a key capital ship get all the you... Safeguarding the essential trade routes that Britain depends on communications cables too to! Carrier, perhaps a few frigates/destroyers to show we meant business as clear-cut you! Dso, RN ) departed Gibraltar to join the convoy will have to be done SSN down there enough. Then the aircraft themselves may well haveRead more interesting hypothetical and it is n't as clear-cut as you might.! On this already ( sorta ) provided and invaluable early warning system the escort HMS... For Oran life of 50 years central to the stability and prosperity of Britain and the Marnix van Aldegonde... Of Ark Royal to be operational, a newer ship than Ark Royal built 1912 ), HMS Velox Lt.! In 1985 ' a Sector ' was made up of HMS Karanja ( Lt.Cdr. Emgy! Positions for the troopship Canberra, had been retained as fast jet carriers that breaking up Ark... Brunton, DSC, RN ), P.C its American-designed AN/APS-20F search radar had entered. 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